Where did it come from, originally, this idea to explore the Faustian Spirit, or Neo-Fasutianism?
Neal
I was watching this video of the Paris Dakar Rally. It was some Dutch guy in the 70s is just trucking through the desert in some Audi at about 160 kilometres per hour and then right next to him was this truck, overtaking him! And the comment on the video was: This is some real Faustian spirit.
So I guess it was the combination of seeing that spirit of exploration – actually just going into the desert, creating this vehicle and then charging through the desert – and then the comment of Faustian / Neo-faustian spirit, and I was are curious: what was that? What was the Faustian spirit? And then that’s why I started checking it out.
That’s when I figured out that it was quite similar to what we’ve been talking about in Ripplty, about trying to push the boundary of wisdom, about trying to figure it out. Knowledge and exploration: What’s beyond our knowledge, what’s out there.
And I suppose that’s the same sort of thing that they were doing with these vehicles in the rally. And I think one point in the comment was about: This Faustian spirit, was it directed at the right thing, you know? I mean: that spirit, was it directed at the right thing of doing this Paris Dakar rally or could it have been directed at something else? And I think that was a sort of a clue there.
So then that’s when I start that conversation with you, based on what I’d read. And then I was quizzing you about the Faustian Spirit.
Carl
It took me by surprise. I thought I knew all about it, because I studied Goethe at university, but I realise that I had forgotten everything, but Faust sold his soul to the devil in order to achieve wisdom beyond what he could achieve as a human being. But then he went and got Gretchen pregnant and he caused mayhem and caused all sorts of pain and grief. And then I think he somehow or other improved himself, he put himself together and he put his skills to good work, to help humanity and God then forgave him and cancelled the contract with Mephistopheles. So I’ve got no idea all this Faustian Spirit is.
Neal
Well, Faust is based on the original person who existed, which was Doctor Faust – this scientist that existed in the 1300s or 1400s? And so he must have been some scientist or some kind – or Alchemist – who became legendary, and Marlowe also wrote about Doctor Faust. So evidently the original character had tried to sort of Push the boundaries, I think.
Matt
Isn’t associated with a kind of European spirit as well? A willingness to push forward and and find what’s beyond.
I was reading something, just looking on Wikipedia, before we came, some kind of encyclopaedias. He had this famous kind of death as well, where he was conducting some kind of experiment and then it went terribly wrong. It was like a sort of chemical experiment. And that’s that’s how he dies.He’s kind of pushing the frontier. As far as he could. Embracing these risks which led to his death. I guess that’s what kind of became so mythologized.
Neal
And I suppose that’s also the link back to the rally car where the Audi car survived but actually the truck then somersaulted and the guy in that one passed away.
Matt
Yeah, so might, might be quite sort of telling about that Faustian spirit.
Jeremy
What I find fascinating is what you’re saying about the fact that he sold his soul to the devil in order to become wise, but then he ended up making things a little worse as a result.
Carl
Yes. That’s in Goethe’s ‘Faust’, and then it’s recriminations, regret and decided to become a better person with that knowledge. Which then lead to redemption with God. But the Faustian spirit as such which would be the striving after greater wisdom or greater insights that somehow were denied – and Faust’s problem was that it was not possible to get there as a normal human being. He couldn’t get there unless he sold his soul and Mephistoples would open the doors, granting that wisdom
Neal
I mean, is it actually the devil? Is it actually in terms of: you’re going to hell.
Jeremy
He does live in hell. That’s the thing. My interpretation is that it is that the devil is that the Devil is in us as much as God is. Both sides, right? We are capable of the worst and we can make our life hell. And the way I interpret that is: there’s no shortcuts to window.
If you think there are short cuts to wisdom, then you will end up doing bad things. And this is therefore not actually reaching out for wisdom. This is actually like trying. You know you want it to be easy and it’s not easy. It’s something actually difficult for a man to achieve and attain. And there’s a reason for that, and everyone is trying to cut corners and it’s basically like selling their soul to the devil in a way.
We continued the conversation for another 45 minutes where we explored:
- Indian philosophy and the path to becoming wise being as ‘sharp as a razor’s edge’ and why it was always known that attaining wisdom was ‘difficult’ and that it should be!
- The difference between Eastern philosophy and Western Philosophy with the latter putting an emphasis on the individual pursuit of seeking wisdom (Campbell’s Hero Journey) rather than via a guru.
- Wisdom in a European context being misconstrued as something scientific or mathematical which has had the side-effect of being ‘left-hemisphered’ – a kind of pact, and with repercussions we see today.
- An exploration of Vervaeke’s 4 P’s of knowledge and how wisdom requires all four elements.
- Our own constraints as a collective to achieving wisdom and what the ‘pact with Mephistopheles’ represents to us.
- To what extent wisdom is scalable and our need for wisdom communities and how we can avoid ‘unwanted externalities’ in any new endeavour.
- That in some ways the next frontier is the neuroscientific domain and that might be where the next Faustian Spirit plays out.
Full Audio